Talk:Elysium

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Comments[edit]

mentioned in Ode to Joy

Joy, thou glorious spark of heaven, Daughter of Elysium, We approach fire-drunk, Heavenly One, your shrine.

Elysium was not as much fun as it sounds here. Quotes from those poets would be illuminating.

From the fields, the most virtuous of the souls could be reborn into another human body. No. Not any more than in Catholicism. Transmigration of souls? No. No. Wetman 20:58, 24 Mar 2004 (UTC)

Transmigration of the soul? Yes. Pythagoras and the Greek mysteries taught what we now call reincarnation. We now have scientific proof of it through Reincarnation Theory & its 21 Principles. - Brad Watson, Miami 66.229.56.118 (talk) 16:51, 17 September 2011 (UTC)

Organizing Afterlife Articles[edit]

I would like to organize the articles that deal with an otherworld as a real existence. I propose that Afterlife would be the best hub for such articles. Eschatology and Underworld are other possibilities, but I don't think they work as well as Afterlife. Any thoughts on such a project? Please come to Talk:Afterlife to discuss. Tom (hawstom) 14:44, 6 May 2004 (UTC)

Small edit[edit]

ʔ I took out the word "literate" in the section on the Greek Elysian Fields as Homer's epics were passed down orally for centuries before being put in written form.

Just another small edit- in the Pop Culture section the word used at the end of the Gladiator article was Elysium fields rather than the Elysian used throughout the rest of the article. Just thought I'd make all things mesh a bit better.--Arynknight 01:20, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

User:Tomf688 has unspoken issues[edit]

User:Tomf688 has reapplied a "cleanup" tag, demanding even more introductory "context". We may expect his explanation: (Wetman 00:01, 10 May 2005 (UTC))

Check your attitude at the door. The intro needs less focus on shakespeare (and does not need the excerpt from Twelfth Night) and better flow. Make a clear and concise definition of what an "Elysium" is at the beginning of the article, as is standard in encyclopedias (Elysium is blah blah). --tomf688(talk) 01:03, May 10, 2005 (UTC)
Since the text that follows is trying to trace the changes in "what an 'Elysium' is", which a thoughtful reader might detect as a main theme in this article, perhaps confident User:tomf688 had best provide for us his selected "meaning", where angels fear to tread. The better sort of Wikipedians do not use those "clean up" labels. Especially not at entries where they have not previously contributed. We await a brilliant opening paragraph. --Wetman 04:31, 10 May 2005 (UTC)
I wonder User:Wetman what your problem is? I found this page following one of my random paging sessions and have no education in the matter to write a thoughtful introduction. The one right now is confusing.
And don't lecture me on what a "better sort of Wikipedian" is; a better Wikipedian and a half-decent person wouldn't act like such an ass. --tomf688(talk) 12:26, May 10, 2005 (UTC)
I agree that the intro isn't very good. In fact it's poor. If no one is capable of rewritting it, it could simply be deleted. If the article simply started with the Greek section it would be a major improvement. And it would suffice until someone got around to writing a suitable intro.--198.93.113.49 14:20, 11 May 2005 (UTC)

Back to elysios[edit]

As the Elysium is supposedly latinalization of the Greek word propably this page and all content should be renamed after the greek word and make a redir from Latin to Greek. Who care's what's the name of the place in Latin, English or Finnish? (Anonymous)

If one stops to think, what will the Wikipedia reader look for? one will rarely make such mistakes. --Wetman 14:21, 26 March 2006 (UTC)

Elysian Fields: the band[edit]

I agree that it's not quite as relevant but yesterday, when I did a search for Elysian Fields, to see if the band had an entry, it brought me to Elysium and not to the disambiguation page. Having no idea that the disambiguation page even existed, I figured the line would help others, looking for the band, who were probably also getting sent to Elysium, to find what they were looking for. I've since discovered that someone had created a redirect page that was sending people searching for Elysian Fields to Elysium. I've fixed the mistake. JohnBWatt

--That may have been counterproductive for the purposes of facilitating someone researching the mythological Elysian Fields. Could someone replace it, if that isnt too rude of me to ask? I would myself, but i dont know how.

Self-contradiction[edit]

This article is confusing. It starts out by saying that Elysium was a section of the Underworld (which was subterranean, according to its article). But then the article goes on to say that classical literature says that Elysium was actually an island or islands in the "Western Ocean", or in the Black Sea. That doesn't sound subterranean to me, so saying it was a section of the Underworld probably isn't entirely accurate. Maybe it should just say something vague like "In Greek Mythology, Elysium was a final resting place of the heroic and virtuous." (this is taken from the second paragraph) -kotra 23:55, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

In Greek mythology one of the ways of getting to the "underworld" is by sailing to the edge of the world, e.g. Odyssey book 11, or the labors in which Heracles goes to the western edge of the world (Apples of the Hesperides, Cattle of Geryon). In other words, the underworld is both beneath the earth and at its edge--and the western ocean and the Black Sea were both believed to be the edges of the earth at some point in Greek mythology. That may well seem contradictory, but it's a contradiction that comes from the classical sources. --Akhilleus (talk) 05:44, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

well, I think its ok. This is like many older words, many meanings and spellings have ocurred over time, and we do not know for sure for sure the original and in some ways it does not matter too much, all things evolve. I actually think overall the article read well. I like that it progressed for the most part by age. Just think about how much 'thats bad' has changed over the years. This is an ecyclopeida, so I would expect some of the history. If was just a dictionary then it would fit more to just have current definitions. My 2 cents.-Craig

Etymology concerns[edit]

I'm not sure the etymologies listed would really stand up to linguistic scrutiny. For the previously mentioned example about Elisha, this would be much more convincing if the Greek upsilon (υ) were pronounced like modern English "y", which all evidence points to being pronounced more like modern German "ü".

Furthermore, the Egyptian pronunciation given for "jʔrw" as "iaru" is a shorthand for people who want to merely communicate the hieroglyphs without worrying about the actual pronunciation (which can only be hypothesized based on contemporary accounts of the language and comparisson to the later Coptic dialect). Given the reconstruction by Antonio Loprieno, my (uneducated) guess would be that it would be pronounced more like "yaɜraw", as compared with "jfdw" ("ifedu" in shorthand pronunciation) which Loprieno posits as "yafdaw", and "stpw" (shorthand "setepu") "satpaw".

All the Coptic words I've found meaning "reed" contain a "k" sound, which leads me to believe that the Coptic word is not based on the jʔrw root, so I have nothing for comparisson. However, I think it's highly unlikely that jʔrw was pronounced much like "iaru", which is, more or less, the point of my rant. AndrewT 14:33, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

It's all Greek...and Roman[edit]

That Elysium is derived from Greek for "struck by lightning" doesn't seem so unusual to me. If you take into context of ancient Greek mythos that Zeus was given credit for lightning, the phrase could be paralleled to a holy blessing. It's also noteworthy that the Roman version of Zeus, Jupiter, was also addressed as Elicius, a word also atributed to lightning; thus the origin could be Latin as well as Greek.

I don't know if there's any actual sources that make note of these things or not. I just thought I'd bring it up and see what people think. - Signed, D.

Serenade[edit]

Edgar Allan Poe mentions Elysium in his poem Serenade. I think it should be added to the page somewhere but I've no idea. Someone else with experience could though :) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ben0104 (talkcontribs) 01:46, 26 October 2007 (UTC)

You could do it, it doesn't take skill to edit wikipedia pages. 13:14, 29 October 2007 (UTC)Ihsbislns

Trying to add pictures, but it wont work![edit]

As you can see, the links aren't putting up pictures, which this article needs, any help? Ihsbislns 13:25, 29 October 2007 (UTC)Ihsbisln

Deleted cruft[edit]

If anyone wants to add back any golf greens or whorehouses etc etc, they have to show how the usage expands, changes or deepens the reader's understanding of Elysium, the subject of this article. That is what relevant means, and it's never to late to learn... I'm told. --Wetman (talk) 20:18, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

Gladiator[edit]

Would anyone mind if I threw a Gladiator reference in?--ronin13 (talk) 13:57, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

Not at all. this article is a mockery of references already...SSPecter Talk|E-Mail 10:08, 24 October 2008 (UTC).

Associated[edit]

The phrase "associated with" in the first paragraph seems out of place and has no explanation of or reference to, any 'special' association, I suggest it is left out and the later paragraphs allowed to link the subject with various heaven myths. Splodgeness (talk) 15:59, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

A little research reveals that the phrase was spuriously inserted a year ago without any references. I have removed it and feel that the introductory first section is complete as is. I don't dispute that the christian heaven myths owe something to the Greek myths, but their plagiarism is no more notable than the many other religions which have borrowed from this particular story. Splodgeness (talk) 23:39, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

Anarchy Online[edit]

In Anarchy Online, the second area of the Shadowlands (after Nascense, before Scheol) is called Elysium. Seems somehow relevant.--Healyhatman (talk) 16:06, 5 August 2008 (UTC)

{{quote}}[edit]

Someone change {{quote}} so that it can incorporate such formatting.96.53.149.117 (talk) 16:39, 15 December 2008 (UTC)


Tolkien[edit]

Article says: "In the fiction of J. R. R. Tolkien, the Elysian Undying Lands, the home of the gods, elves, and a select few others, can only be reached by crossing the western sea, much as one would have to cross the stream of Oceanus to reach the Fortunate Isles."
-- This appears to be WP:OR. It should be removed, or at least cited to a reliable objectve source. -- 201.53.7.16 (talk) 18:21, 24 December 2008 (UTC)

The scribbling is over[edit]

The pop culture laundry lists may now be found at Greek mythology in popular culture, where they are relevant. No further scribbling here will be tolerated. All additions of passing mentions in tv shows, video games or ice cream flavors etc. will be deleted without comment. --Wetman (talk) 06:17, 6 August 2009 (UTC)

Memoirs of a fox hunting man[edit]

Added a bit that I found whilst reading Memoirs of a fox hunting man. Seemed appropriate. --Ausnick2001 (talk) 09:06, 30 March 2010 (UTC)

Proposed edit[edit]

I believe the second sentence is confusing and inaccurate: "Initially separate from Hades, admission was initially reserved for mortals related to the gods and other heroes" I propose wording it this way and would appreciate comments: "Separate from Hades, it was sometimes seen as a destination and at other times a way station or waiting area. Admission was initially reserved for mortals related to the gods and other heroes" Thanks for comments. Brulater — Preceding unsigned comment added by Brulater (talkcontribs) 14:58, 10 September 2011 (UTC)

Sports[edit]

Elysian Fields is the name given to the wide fairway of the Long Par 5 14th Hole at The Old Course at St. Andrews, Scotland [1] - Brad Watson, Miami 66.229.56.118 (talk) 16:36, 17 September 2011 (UTC)

Please explain how adding this would help the reader understand the topic of this article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.197.98.28 (talk) 20:35, 22 March 2013 (UTC)

References

  1. ^ The World Atlas of Golf, Gallery Books, 3rd Edition, 1991, p. 39 & 43

Rousseau should be added[edit]

Julie ou la nouvelle Heloise contains an important relevance to Elysium. It's the secret garden of the protagonist and can be regarded as iconic for Rousseau's quest for authenticity. I'm not a native speaker or enough a scholar to write something substantial about it, but would like to mention it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.68.140.213 (talk) 21:28, 23 August 2012 (UTC)